■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
http://www31.atwiki.jp/stealthnet/
Have you released 0.8.7.4 beta in Japanese?
SNの日本語版ってリリースされてたっけ？
However, the translation above isn't equal to mine.
でも、上の翻訳は、俺の持ってるバージョンのと違うんだけど。
■T.Norad
http://www31.atwiki.jp/stealthnet/
Have you released 0.8.7.4 beta in Japanese?
SNの日本語版ってリリースされてたっけ？
However, the translation above isn't equal to mine.
でも、上の翻訳は、俺の持ってるバージョンのと違うんだけど。
No. I'm confused also
だね。何がどうなってるんだ。
■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
Wow!
わぉ！
Some Japanese developers have made a Japanese version of 0.8.7.4!!!
一部の日本人開発者が日本語バージョンを作ったみたいだ！
It misses some translations...but they're different than mine.
いくつか翻訳ミスがある…でも、彼らのは私たちのと違う。
■T.Norad
I ask myself: Why doesn't come the translator to us. I know he saw the "Wanted"-Call on the homepage
自分自身に尋ねる：なぜ翻訳者は誰一人としてここに来ないんだ。求人情報がHPに掲載されているのに。
■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
I ask myself: Why doesn't come the translator to us.
自分自身に尋ねる：なぜ翻訳者は誰一人としてここに来ないんだ。
I don't know...I want to talk to them in that board, but I don't know how sign up...
わからない…彼らとそこ(2ch)で話してみたい。でも、どうやってサインアップしたらいいのか分からない・・・
Then I don't understand nothing...Google translation helped me...
だから私は何も分からない…グーグル翻訳よ、たすけてくれ・・・・
■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
There is also this:
comment 80: Japanese Version + Extended (GeoIP connection priority adjustment)
I tried to start it but the command line opens and I see "please wait: x sec".
ためしてみたよ。でも、コマンドラインが開いて「please wait:xsec」って表示されるだけだ・・・
But it does nothing...
何も起こらない・・・
■Andylee
GeoIP...? Does that mean they want to prevent their clients to connect to clients outside of Japan?
GepIP・・・？ってことは、彼らは日本国外のIPをブロックしようとしているのか？
■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
GeoIP...? Does that mean they want to prevent their clients to connect to clients outside of Japan?
GepIP・・・？ってことは、彼らは日本国外のIPをブロックしようとしているのか？
I don't know.
わからない
I've tried to start it, but I can't...have you tried?
実行してみたけど、私の環境だと動かない…あんたは試してみた？
■Andylee
I tried.... did not work
試したさ……全然動かない。。。
■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
From SN Japanese Wiki:
2010年2月には、ダウンロードソフト板の利用者によって、0.8.7.3を元にした非公式日本語版が作られた。 また、その後のアップデートで公式版とは違う仕様を一部持っている。
Google Translation: 2010 In February, the board by the use of downloaded software, 0.8.7.3 was created an informal version of the original Japanese. The official version of the update and then have some different specifications.
I tried.... did not work
試したさ……全然動かない。。。
now I know how write on that jap board, but foreigners can't.
今、日本のボードの書き込み方を知ったよ。でも、外国からだと書き込めないみたい。
I tried also with Japanese proxies, but nothing...
日本のプロキシも試してみたけど、だめだった…
I hope someone of theirs come here.
だれかこっちに来てくれないかな。
■2chdaihyo
hi!!!
やあ！！
i am japanese!!
日本人だよ！！
Hello everybody!
はろーえぶりばでぃー！！
We are the elite of Japan.
私たちは日本のエリートです
I would like to help the Japanese translation.
私は日本語への翻訳を助けたい
Let's get along far into the future.
末永くよろしく
■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
hi!!!
やあ！！
i am japanese!!
日本人だよ！！
Hello everybody!
はろーえぶりばでぃー！
We are the elite of Japan.
私たちは日本のエリートです
I would like to help the Japanese translation.
私は日本語への翻訳を助けたい
Let's get along far into the future.
末永くよろしく
Hi. Nice too meet you.
こちらこそよろしく
First of all, can you confirm that you're not developing a version for Japanese users only?
最初に、あなたは、日本語版が日本のユーザのためだけに開発されていないと言う事を確認できますか？
About Japanese translation, I tried to do it about 2 months ago and it's incomplete, but if you want to contribute and enhance it mods can allow you to see a special section where you can post your translations.
日本語の翻訳について、私は2ヶ月前から翻訳を進めている。でも、それは未完成。
もしあなたが翻訳作業に貢献したいというのなら、私たちは翻訳作業に必要な特別なセクションを見せることが出来ます。
■2chdaihyo
Hi. Nice too meet you.
こちらこそよろしく
First of all, can you confirm that you're not developing a version for Japanese users only?
最初に、あなたは、日本語版が日本のユーザのためだけに開発されていないと言う事を確認できますか？
About Japanese translation, I tried to do it about 2 months ago and it's incomplete, but if you want to contribute and enhance it mods can allow you to see a special section where you can post your translations.
日本語の翻訳について、私は2ヶ月前から翻訳を進めている。でも、それは未完成。
もしあなたが翻訳作業に貢献したいというのなら、私たちは翻訳作業に必要な特別なセクションを見せることが出来ます。
sorry.
すまない
No such facts.
そのような事実はないよ
We want to cooperate with you.
私達は完全にあなたと同じ事を望んでいる。
■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
Thank you. Developers appreciate.
If you wish to add or correct translations you'll be able to see a section called Lost+Found with a subsection called Translations later (when a mod will allow you).
Feel free to suggest translations and enhancement to the source code here.
Mods and developers will answer you as soon as possible...
■kuma
The reason why Japanese version of StealthNet bans foreign connection is that Japanese only cares about bandwidth and speed. Also, Japanese want a new full-anonymized P2P file sharing software, because domestic softwares are now having a possibility of being arrested in violation of copyright law.
■stealthnet-corp
welcome here
really happy to see how japanese people are interrested in sn
■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
The reason why Japanese version of StealthNet bans foreign connection is that Japanese only cares about bandwidth and speed.
So, do you confirm that you made a version for Japanese users only?
Also, Japanese want a new full-anonymized P2P file sharing software, because domestic softwares are now having a possibility of being arrested in violation of copyright law.
Ok, but there's no reason to make it for Japanese users only.
If you care about bandwidth and speed (also original developers care about it) you can improve the routing functions spreading route with more throughput, but it's not right to cut off foreigner users.
■sharingmouse
The anonymity will increase much more with foreign users! If users like speed and not anonymity they can use p2p or och. ap2p is developed first for anonymity and this costs speed. But I can understand that the time is running faster in Japan and a slow ap2p will have no success. But Europe have also highspeed internet with fiber optic cable.
■jean-roger
This MOD works for me in France.
■kuma
So, do you confirm that you made a version for Japanese users only?
Ok, but there's no reason to make it for Japanese users only.
If you care about bandwidth and speed (also original developers care about it) you can improve the routing functions spreading route with more throughput, but it's not right to cut off foreigner users.
"bans foreign connection" is not "banning every connections which outside of Japan."
Japanese mod version of StealthNet works as followings:
1.Analyse the nodes country by using GeoIP when StealthNet starts.
2.Route nodes that matches the country as first priority.
3.Route other nodes which is not in the same country as second priority.
So maybe, at some point, it makes an closed network, but not totally.
By doing this, you can share files which specific to the country faster.
■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
I don't agree with this functioning...
Besides, StealthNet must not analyse IPs for a matter of principle...
However, SN is an open source software, so you can modify it like you want, but will you release also the source code?
■Andylee
If you create a mod like this I really would encourage the following:
- rename your mod to something like Stealthnet Japanese edition to avoid confusion of users
- really take a LOT of time and think about anonymity!
- Your method treats anonymity like a chainsaw treats a tree: it cuts it down. If you use your version I am very sure that anonymity is at HIGH risk.
- Stealthnet is published within the GPL, so please make sure you obey the laws and publish your source code! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License)
■kuma
I am certainly agree with your suggestions above.
To solve these problems, I think that the best and fastest way is to release Japanese translated version.
I would love to participate Japanese translation.
■Andylee
TNorad, who is responsible for the Translators forum is working on your request to gain access
And I think the maker of the moded StealthNet does not know well about RShare network or WebCache technology...
■DiGiT@LoN€ ITA
If you know him, invite him here...
■kuma
Japanese wiki says "There is no GeoIP mod version."
日本にwikiに、GeoIP付き改造版は無いって書いてある。
wtf
なんてこった
■stealthnet-corp
is there any japanese community with a board or something like that??
■manju
I am japanese.
The Japanese community is there.
■kuma
I've summarized some of the suggestions and proposals from the Japanese community board.
- Adding a viewer of recent search history.
- Sharing uncompleted cache files.
- handling a file more which has more than 4GB.
- enable search statement "and", "or", and "not".
- Search filtering by setting NG words.
- add tripcode feature (see http://www.4chan.org/faq#trip for more detail of tripcode) to identify nodes.
- change charactor limit from 3 to 2 at file search. (by 2 byte letter)
CRC32: BD331607
MD5: EFC1E79FB349DE4BBD44A73752EF9E03
SHA-1: 15A38FD6A98552C4ADEEB1A266F14AAA68B456FD
SHA-512: A32501C76B4E2C42E6D5BF99D94A09714383841198C02CE2A7B0918D250B52A263D3B75D58804BF24153FF5B21C8E91ECAAA81A4778484D59EE6A87E79473AC
■kuma
That Japanese mod version of StealthNet contains some features which mentioned above such as
- 3 charactor strict to 3byte strict at file search.
■kuma
This patch can change search file limitation.
In order to use this patch, you need Visual C# 2008 Express Edtion.
StealthNet-0.8.7.4-svn-1Patch diff.txt
5347744CD3581C2787B82E689D40DA560DCFE166F32154807072B2A243A35E1A92FE9A2415C3D463AD3453784E2A2646BD267AF1DB58FAAA76340D9CF6F266DF
■Andylee
Don't we already share uncompleted Cache files?
私たちはすでに不完全なキャッシュを共有していませんか？
About the file size restriction: AFAIK it is not possible to allow bigger files because of the protocol. Changing this would be a huge step, I assume.
ファイルサイズの制限について：私が知っている限り、プロトコルの関係でより大きいファイルの共有は可能ではない。これを変えるためには、大きな変更が必要になると思う。
■DiGiT@LoN? ITA
Do this affect anonymity?
匿名性へ影響を及ぼすんじゃないの？
this is the latest source code of Japanese Mod version of StealthNet.
これは日本語版SNの最終版です
Has this mod the feature for make a route with Japanese nodes (analysing IP country...)?
この改造版は、日本のノードと接続を確保する特徴を持っている？(IPの国名を解析してる…？)
■kuma
It's sort of. By adding tripcode to identify nodes, users can identify if someone is providing fake or virus files.
ノードを識別するためにトリップを追加する事によって、もし誰かがウイルスや捏造ファイルをUPした時、ユーザーは識別することが出来ます
The mod has not this feature.
改造版はそのような機能を持っていません
And the mod does not have the GeoIP feature.
そして、改造版はGeoIPの機能を持っていません
■Andylee
ah.... but there are no NODES that can be identified offering data in the network! that's why it is called anonymous!
ああ…、でも、SNネットワークにはデータの提供を見分けることが出来るノードが居ません！だから匿名なのです！
You can not identify a node to share a virus, because you never know if the node is just passing the file through or actually having/sharing the file.
ノードがファイルを持っているのか、転送しているのか決して知ることは出来ないので、あなたはウイルスを提供しているノードを識別することは出来ません。
■DiGiT@LoN? ITA
It's sort of. By adding tripcode to identify nodes, users can identify if someone is providing fake or virus files.
ノードを識別するためにトリップを追加する事によって、もし誰かがウイルスや捏造ファイルをUPした時、ユーザーは識別することが出来ます
You've not answered me.
それは説明になってない
Does this feature boost for using nodes of a certain nationality?
その機能は特定のノードの使用を後押しする物ですか？
Does the analyse work also for identify the nationality of nodes?
ノードの国籍を解析しますか？
Answer me yes or no.
YseかNoで答えて下さい
■kuma
The mod does not have the GeoIP feature.
この改造版はGeoIPの機能を持っていません
Which means no.
そしてそれはNoを意味します。
About the topic, "anonymity", is at the level of debate is whether the information has been hidden in the real world.
その話題(匿名性)については議論をする段階にあります。それは情報が現実の世界に隠されているかどうかに関係無くあります
I'm using the name "kuma" in the boards, but no one can find out my real name, where am I live, nor man or weman.
私は「ｸﾏｰ」という名前をこのボードで使っている。しかし私を誰もリアルの名前もどこに住んでるかも、男か女かさえ知ることは出来ない。
Tagging tripcode to nodes are the same kind of thing.
ノードにトリップを付ける事はこれと大体同じ事を言っています
And, this is just a one suggession, so don't take it so serious.
これは一つの提案にすぎないから、それほど深く考えなくても良いよ
■blewzahr
identifiying nationalities/networks for certain nodes is ofcourse only possible for the clients direct neighbors.
i think this jap client is no big deal, it might only favor the direct near ip addresses that it receives via the webcache and direct connections, so it might connect to .jp nodes more quicklier or in a preferred way than to the rest non-jp nodes.
thats no big problem as long as the nodes dont divide themselves into two separate sub-clouds and are nore longer interconnected.
but that ofcourse cant possibly be the idea of the japanese modders, as it wouldnt really make any sense at all as long as the japanese participants are only a few.
in the long run nobody can actually prevent separate networks from forming, as everybody is free to mod the sourcecode use different/disjunct webcaches etc.
hopefully the whole network will rather grow and get more interconnected then already separating and tearing itself apart.
cheers.
長文の訳が面倒なので、意訳を
特定のノードとの接続を優先させるってのは、そんなに深刻な問題じゃない
国籍を解析するって言っても、速度を落とす原因となるIPとの接続を切って.jpノードと接続させるだけ
すると、国別にSNネットワークが形成されるが、それは他国との接続を一切受け付けないという意味ではない
うまくいけば、全体的なネットワークはむしろ成長する
■DiGiT@LoN? ITA
The mod does not have the GeoIP feature.
この改造版はGeoIPの機能を持ってない
Which means no.
だから答えはNoだ
OK, so you can explain me what does the following mean? :
OK、ならこれの説明はどう付けるんだ？
StealthNet part3 >124
日本は、平均速度60Mbps。金額は、1Mbps当たりの価格。
日本の場合、1Mbps当たり27セント/月ってことらしー。
ちなみに韓国は、家庭に引いてるとは限らないので
日本に近いじゃん！って事は、無いよ。
日本断トツ杉、異常。
1位 日本（60mbps、27セント）
2位 韓国（22mbps、45セント）
3位 フィンランド（22mbps、2ドル77セント）
4位 スウェーデン（18mbps、63セント）
5位 フランス（18mbps、1ドル64セント）
Where do these informations come from?
これらの情報はどうやって手に入れたんだ？
About the topic, "anonymity", is at the level of debate is whether the information has been hidden in the real world.
その話題(匿名性)については議論をする段階にあります。それは情報が現実の世界に隠されているかどうかに関係無くあります
I'm using the name "kuma" in the boards, but no one can find out my real name, where am I live, nor man or weman.
私は「ｸﾏｰ」という名前をこのボードで使っている。しかし私を誰もリアルの名前もどこに住んでるかも、男か女かさえ知ることは出来ない。
You're totally wrong.
それは間違ってる
When you're on a board (except if you're behind of elite proxies or TOR), you're posts can be associated to an undefined number of IPs.
あなたがフォーラムに居る時、proxyやtorを使っている場合を除いて、あなたの投稿はIPと結びつけることが出来る
If your government wants, it's able to know what ISP you have, so, It can order to your ISP what account had a determinate IP at determinate date and hour.
あなたの国の政府が望めば、あなたがどのISPに所属しているかを知ることが出来る。だから、政府は投稿された日時からISPに問い合わせ、個人を特定することが出来る。
So, if they want, they can catch you. It doesn't matter if I cannot know you're a male or a female.
だから、政府が望めば、政府はあなたを捕まえることが出来ます。私があなたが男か女か分からないというのは重要ではない
You've to know this situation since in Japan have arrested developers of P2P software in the past.
日本で過去にP2Pソフトウェアの開発者が逮捕された時から、あなたはこの状況を知っていなければなりません。
If you analyse any IP, the software is not secure.
もしあなたがIPを解析するなら、そのソフトウェアにセキュリティーという物はない
But, if you want, explain me your concept of anonymity.
しかし、あなたが望むなら、あなたの匿名という概念を私に説明して下さい
■kuma
You're totally wrong.
それは間違ってる
When you're on a board (except if you're behind of elite proxies or TOR), you're posts can be associated to an undefined number of IPs.
あなたがフォーラムに居る時、proxyやtorを使っている場合を除いて、あなたの投稿はIPと結びつけることが出来る
If your government wants, it's able to know what ISP you have, so, It can order to your ISP what account had a determinate IP at determinate date and hour.
So, if they want, they ＞can catch you. It doesn't matter if I cannot know you're a male or a female.
あなたの国の政府が望めば、あなたがどのISPに所属しているかを知ることが出来る。だから、政府は投稿された日時からISPに問い合わせ、個人を特定することが出来る。
だから、政府が望めば、政府はあなたを捕まえることが出来ます。私があなたが男か女か分からないというのは重要ではない
You've to know this situation since in Japan have arrested developers of P2P software in the past.
日本で過去にP2Pソフトウェアの開発者が逮捕された時から、あなたはこの状況を知っていなければなりません。
I am aware of the situations and the technical stuff.
私は状況と技術的な物に気付いています
As long as it uses P2P technology and algorithm, there is any danger of losing their anonymity, even StealthNet by packet capturing and analysis.
それがP2P技術とアルゴリズムを使用する限り、匿名性を失う様々な危険もある。SNでさえ、パケットによってキャプチャーや解析をされます
And, if you want to talk about the quote from our community board, come to our community board and write whatever you want.
そして、もしあなたが2chに書かれていることについて話したいのなら、2chに来て書き込んで下さい
I am not a mediator nor dedicated translator.
私は調停者でも熱心な翻訳者でも有りません
■DiGiT@LoN? ITA
And, if you want to talk about the quote from our community board, come to our community board and write whatever you want.
そして、もしあなたが2chに書かれていることについて話したいのなら、2chに来て書き込んで下さい
I am not a mediator nor dedicated translator.
私は調停者でも熱心な翻訳者でも有りません
I've written a PM to you for this, but I've not received answers.
私はこのためにあなたにPMを書きました。でも、返事を貰えませんでした
■Andylee
hey, dear guys and gals!
やあ兄弟。
please calm down ok?
とりあえず落ち着けよ。な？
What do we know up to now? There is some kind of Japanese mod of Stealthnet
(please name it in this way! a mod ought not use the original name of the software not to confuse people!).
私たちは今までに何を知っている？いくつかの日本版SNがある
（このようにして名付けます!改造版は人々を混乱させないためにオリジナルの名前を使用しない方がいいです！(純正SNとの区別化をして下さい！)）
This mod has several aims which it wants to reach. Some of them we may like, some of them we may not like.
この改造版はいくつかの目的を持ちます(改造の到達目標があります。なそうとしている事があります)。
彼らの内のいくらかは私たちのことが好きかも知れませんし、好きじゃないかも知れません。
Creating a mod is their own responsibility and it's not up to us to criticize every step they take.
Of course it would be cool if they would try to interact with the original development team, but it's open source, so why ought they hesitate to make mods?
(The worst thing possible is that their mod is really separated from the rest if the original client someday gets to a version without backwards compatibility).
改造版を作ることは彼ら(日本人)自身の責任です。そして、彼らのとる行動を我々は批判するべきではない。
もちろん、もし彼らがオリジナルSNの開発に参加しようとするならcool()でしょう。しかし、それはオープンソースです。なぜ彼らは改造版を作るのを躊躇しないといけないのです？
(考えられる限り最悪なことは、もしオリジナルSNが旧バージョンとの互換性を持たずにバージョンアップした時、彼らの改造版が本当に引き離されると言う事です。)
So please be nice on discussion, don't hurry things so much. digitalone: japanese quotes are not useful. nobody can read them (except you and kuma).
So please do this discussion in PMs.
だから、有意義な議論をして下さい。急がなくても良いのです。digitalone：日本語での引用は役に立ちません。誰も読めないのだから(あなたとｸﾏｰ以外は)。
PMでやれ。
Ok, and now back to topic, ok? Nothing bad happened or will happen. we just have two different opportunities about how stealthnet may ought look like in the future.
Keep your emotions out.
話が脱線しすぎだ。本題に戻ろうぜ？何も悪いことが起こるか起こらないか、私たちはSNの運命の分岐点に経っているのです。
感情的にならないで下さい。
■kuma
I have to make a few correction about tripcode
私はトリップについていくつか訂正をしないといけません。
Tripcode is NOT uses as identifying nodes.
トリップコードはノードの識別のために使用されません。
Tripcode is use for identifying files. Uploaders can add tripcode to upload files.
トリップコードはファイルの識別のために使われます。UP者はアップロードするファイルにトリップを付加することが出来ます。
So that downloaders a file can look at the tripcode so user can identify if it is a safe file or not.
だから、DL者はトリップコードを見てファイルが安全なのかどうかを見分けることが出来ます。
Every Japanese P2P file sharing softwares have that kind of feature. I suggest that it is very useful to identify safe files.
すべての日本製P2Pファイル共有ソフトはそのような機能を持っています。私は安全なファイルの識別に非常に役立つこの機能を提案します。
■kuma
There are some documents (English) about Japanese P2P file sharing softwares.
ここに日本のP2Pファイル共有ソフトについてのいくつかの文書(英語版)があります
If it can help developers...
開発者の手助けになればいいのですが…
■Andylee
ok now I basically get what tripcodes are for.
OK,いまトリップの基本的な意味が分かったよ。
step 1: somebody shares a file
ステップ1：誰かがファイルを共有する
step 2: people are downloading this file and using it. They can rate the quality with the tripcode.
ステップ2：そのファイルをダウンロードして使う。彼らはトリップコードを使って品質を評価することが出来る
step 3: If I want to download a file, I can first look up the file tripcode so I can see what other users who already rated the DL think about the quality.
ステップ3：私がそのファイルをダウンロードしたい時、私はすでにDLした人が付けた評価(トリップコード)を見てダウンロードすることが出来る
Is this correct?
これであってる？
So this is what the tripcode is FOR. But how do I find out what tripcode a file has, where do I get the comments from?
だから、このトリップコードってのはFORの事。しかし、そのファイルに加えられたトリップコード(ファイルへの評価)をどうやって見つけるのですか？どこからコメントを得るのですか？
If the comments/ratings are transferred inside stealthnet, tripcode makes no sense, as there is already a comment-feature that works the same way.
コメントや評価機能を付けるためにSNを改造するなら、同じ方法で機能する「コメント機能」がすでに実装されていて、トリップ(評価・コメント機能だと勘違いしている)を新しく作っても意味をなしません
If the comments/ratings are stored on an external website in a database than I still have to find out the tripcode of the file,
know the URL of the database and get the ratings from there.
もしコメント・評価機能が外部のDBサイトに保存されるなら、DBのURLを知り、そして評価をそこから得て、私はまだファイルのトリップコードを見つけないといけない。
Another possibility would be to have stealthnet automatically request the ratings from this mentioned website/database and show it in the client.
But still I don't get how the tripcode is connected to the file. If it is within the file information, why don't you just use the hash instead of the tripcode?
もう一つの可能性は、自動的にSNがWebサイトやDBサイトからの評価をリクエストして、クライアントでそれを表示させることです。
しかし、まだ私はトリップコード(評価・コメント)でファイルと接続する方法を得ません。(トリップを元にファイルをさがすことが出来ません(?))。
それ(トリップ)がファイルの情報の範囲内であるなら、どうしてハッシュを使わないのですか？
■shikasan
Hi, I came form 2ch (THE japanese bbs)
やあ、2chから来ました。
Is this bord guranteed anonymity?
この掲示板は匿名性が保証されていますか？
■Andylee
Hi Shikasan!
やあ、shikasan！
No, this board does not guarantee anonymity at all! We talk about anonymity, anonymous networks and develop stealthnet, but this is a totally normal web site with a SMF forum on it.
いいえ、このボードはすべてにおいて匿名性は保証されてないよ！私たちは匿名性と匿名なネットワーク、SNの開発について話している。しかし、ここは普通のWebサイトだよ
■kuma
This post is my last one. But perhaps shikasan and others can explain anything well than me.
これが私の最後の投稿です。しかし、たぶんshikasanと他の人たちが私より上手く説明してくれるはずです。
I'll be at Translation topics.
私は翻訳トピックに行きます
■SupersurferDeluxe
@kuma
>ｸﾏｰ
Thank you for explaining. I think that some users might blame you, although you say that you are NOT the creator of the Japanese mod. But do not hesitate to post again here...
説明ありがとう。私は一部のユーザーがあなたを批判するかも知れないと思う。でも、あなたは日本語版SNの開発者ではないと言います。しかしご遠慮なく、もう一度ここに投稿して下さい。。。
■shikasan
@Andylee
>Andylee
it is NOT correct
それは正しくありません。
I think tirpcode is not so important, however, some Japanese uploder seems to like
私はトリップコードはそんなに重要だと考えています。しかし、一部の日本人アップローダーはそれを好んでいるようです。
identified individual, in addition, Downloder distinguishes it, and favorite to collect the file which shared by THE first Uploder.
個人を識別する事、それに加えて、DL者がそれを識別する。そして、THE first Uploderによって共有されているお気に入りのファイルを集めることが出来る。
Japanese P2P clients possess this function. Of course it is not an open source.
日本のP2Pクライアントはこの機能を備えています。もちろん、それはオープンソースではありません。
■Andylee
if I d not get it right... you may explain it to me?
もし私が正しく理解できてなかったら、、、説明してくれますか？
■Andylee
Ok, it seems like I am a little left behind, but... could please one of you japanese explain in very simple and detailed words how this tripcode thing works?
おｋ。それについて、私は少し理解が及んでないように思う。しかし、、、とても簡単な言葉で、詳細に、トリップコードがどのように働くか説明できますか？
■shikasan
ok
おｋ。
step 1: somebody shares a file; with his sign and his pass phrase
ステップ1：誰かがファイルを共有する。彼の署名とパスワードと共に。
step 2: people find the file signed and encrypteted pass phrase
ステップ2：人々は署名と、暗号化されたパスフレーズの付いたファイルを見つける。
step 3: if they use it safely, they will search files with his encrypted sign (as say as tripcode)
ステップ3：もし彼らがそれを使って安全なら、彼らは次からファイルを彼の暗号化された署名と共に検索する。(これがトリップコードです。)
that is all
これがすべてです
■Andylee
what is "signed"? is this like a special tag in the filename?
署名って何？それはファイルネームのスペシャルタグのようなもの？
encrypted: how do users know the password? where do they get it from?
暗号化について：ユーザーはどうやってパスワードを知る？どこからそれを得る？
■shikasan
>what is "signed"? is this like a special tag in the filename?
>署名って何？それはファイルネームのスペシャルタグのようなもの？
i think so. "sign" is not nessary encryped.
私はそうだと思う。署名は暗号化される必要はない
>encrypted: how do users know the password? where do they get it from?
>暗号化について：ユーザーはどうやってパスワードを知る？どこからそれを得る？
users are not need to know the password.
ユーザーはパスワードを知る必要はありません。
they just see and recognize the encrypeded password and his plain sign.
彼らはちょうど暗号化されたパスワードと彼の明白なサインを見て彼と認識します。
like this:
こんな感じに：
sign encrypted pw
サイン 暗号化されたパスワード
kuma ◆OzqMObGup2
■kuma
perlのサンプルスクリプト
tripcode.pl
$tripkey = "#somephrase";
$tripkey = substr($tripkey,1);
$salt = substr($tripkey.'H.',1,2);
$salt =~ s/[^\.-z]/\./go;
$salt =~ tr/:;<=>?@[\\]^_`/ABCDEFGabcdef/;
$trip = crypt($tripkey,$salt);
$trip = substr($trip,-10);
print "$trip";
■shikasan
can you know kuma's pass phrase?
the source is open here
and encrypted phrase is on your front
if you waste your time, you will be able to find kuma's pass phrase
this algorithm is not so strong
but, enougth to identify the first uploder, for some japanese
■blewzahr
this is rather a weird system i think. never heard of this tripcode so far.
but there are various attempts on the web to publish hashcodes and explanations/details for the file which this hashcode describes.
online hashcode databases.... bitzi (google it) is one of the biggest sites like this which has been around for a very long time. everybody can add their hashes filenames descriptions etc there.
and i think i just read about the anti-virus/-malware industry and these huge software companies and infrastrucuture providers, that they want to cooperate much more and also create some online database of hashcodes that users can query and search for malware and verify their files with additionally.
an online file reputation and hash database is a good project in general and maybe somebody will come up with a dht-based independant p2p-based reputation-database in the future as well that could get potential integration into the various network tools and systems.
about this tripcode: if you seriously want to sign files then why not do it with long-known well-known methods such as gpg/pgp signatures. and yes: pgp/gpg can work with anonymous (non-mail ids as identifiers) means as well, so you can create gpg keys and signatures as simply with key-names such as "kuma" or any string in general, and this string doesnt need to be an email address at all, so nobody will need to supply fake or useless mail addresses or ID# and still everybody could create their nickname as a valid gpg identifer, sign it, publish the public key, and sign files and everything with this gpg identifier and everybody would be capable to verify these signatures with the help of the openpgp keyservers and the supplied public keys as well.
greetings.
■kuma & shikasan
filename siguniture
an_useful_program_1.0.exe good_man@********** User says "OK. it works fine!"
an_useful_program_1.0.exe evil_man@xxxxxxxxxx User says "Oh no! this is a virus!"
later
an_useful_program_2.0.exe good_man@**********
an_useful_program_2.0.exe evil_man@xxxxxxxxxx
which one would you like to download ?
■manju
this is sample of sign in japanese p2p
■blewzahr
i still dont get it, whats the difference from simply commenting the file. you can write your opinion aka sign/nickname there as well.
this is totally useless if you ask me.
at some point there has to be the first step in the trust chain. how do you originally do the very first step in getting a trusted username/signature?
you have to exchange it it some way. you chat with your friends on irc or instantmessenger, or via phone or email or whatever else....
you could basically also get a public key from a gpg keyserver. done.
this tripcode stuff is just reinventing stuff that has been long existed before. but the first step of how to actually create or believe a trusted party on the other side cannot be solved in any of these scenarios.
you just have to believe that the other party on the other side is trustworthy. this very first step is always outside of the system that follows based on this very first step/decision.
simply comment the stealthnet files with the stealthnet comment system and you are all done. or discuss the files (via hashcodes that can be compared/used to identify the file you are actually talking about) in some forum, public place, freenetproject (anonymous places) or wherever else.
lookup hashcodes in online virus / malware databases, or simply on google or wherever else. or read through the comments in the stealthnet comment area that comes for every object (file).
■SupersurferDeluxe
When in Rome do as the Romans do... (German: Andere Länder andere Sitten).
It is not totally useless, when the programm or website generates the HASH from a clear phrase or username + anzthing else to get long enough phrases. BUT it is fakeable for programs, because you can mod your own client which shows a signature stolen from a trustworthy user.
I think it decreases safety, because uninformed users MIGHT think, that it is a secure way to identify certain users/files. But if japanese people like this system: why not give them the possibilty to use it with stealthnet (I would add a hint that this is NOT sufficient to be SURE about the source)? This system with tripcodes might work satisfactory fine for trusted webpages, but not for a client which can be modded by everyone.
But as stated above:
"When in Rome do as the Romans do!"
■kuma
Thanks for the comment. We are finding someone who can actually write codes for that at Japanese community board. (But not yet appears though...)
And also, discussing to find safe argorithm of generating tripcodes.
■SupersurferDeluxe
Here is another explanation for tripcode, which is typically used in Japan:
■SupersurferDeluxe
Wanted to add this now:
I am very happy that StealthNet is becoming more international and popular outside of Germany (and Austria / Switzerland) and France, even outside of europe. I think this is a great opportunity for a growing user base and international cooperation, which is always a very good thing especially when initiated from private people not states.
Hope that it will be possible to work TOGETHER on improving development of ideas and source code and not against or parallel to each other.
Please let us know about Japanese discussions from time to time and do not hesitate to post it on this official StealthNet support forum in English, so that we can discuss with you. I think most people here do not understand japanese (so do I) and my Japanese collegues are not interested in StealthNet so much...
Do not hesitate to open new threads for new topics!
■kuma
Thanks again. Me or other Japanese will let you know if anything comes up.
■Andylee
sign*
■SunSun
Create a dev tree for Japanese,
if unfocused ideas
if they don't submit a specific code
They said
[Japanese want project artifacts , but they don't return anything. ]
What do you think of them?
■Nemo
I have to make a few correction about tripcode
Tripcode is NOT uses as identifying nodes.
Tripcode is use for identifying files. Uploaders can add tripcode to upload files.
So that downloaders a file can look at the tripcode so user can identify if it is a safe file or not.
Every Japanese P2P file sharing softwares have that kind of feature. I suggest that it is very useful to identify safe files.
filename siguniture
an_useful_program_1.0.exe good_man@********** User says "OK. it works fine!"
an_useful_program_1.0.exe evil_man@xxxxxxxxxx User says "Oh no! this is a virus!"
later
an_useful_program_2.0.exe good_man@**********
an_useful_program_2.0.exe evil_man@xxxxxxxxxx
which one would you like to download ?
Here is another explanation for tripcode, which is typically used in Japan:
Thanks for this technical clarification. This Hashvalue-based authentication system is interesting. Never heard of it before.
About fakefiles/viruses/trojans/flooding/spam/Malware in StealthNet: StealthNet is small and has AFAIK no malicous users/nodes. Currently there aren't such problems. I think that such problems will increase when the network gets bigger...
As I mentioned many times on this board: IMHO a useful anonymous P2P-filesharing application uses a pseudonym-system with signed packets/files/messages, the digital signature is made with asymmetric encryption (private/public keypair). The client or the user will reward useful file sources and punish bad nodes/users (building a web of trust). It's a compromise between anonymity and security: Pseudonyms are anonymous and you can trust the files you're downloading. It's something like a friend-to-friend network embedded into an anonymous P2P-network.
Caveats: Key exchange (man in the middle attack!), trusting a friend of friend?, integration of new users (their trust level is low; spammers will also have this trust level...), anonymity risks (revealing private data by mistake, user profile based on onlinetime/speech/slang/language/...), usability, ...
Just my two cents.
Greetings,
Nemo.
■
最終更新：2010年02月25日 08:30
